So, I for one appreciate the clarity of the plot after muddling through The Big Sleep. And LA is pretty sunny as well. What about our leads, though. Do they share the shadowy characteristics of Detour and The Big Sleep? Respond to this general question by answering the two more pointed questions below:
1. What if any elements of Roberts and Marlowe do you see in Neff? As you answer this question, make sure you identify Neff's motivation as best as you are able.
2. Is Phyllis a familiar femme fatale or does she offer a twist on the type?
And bring Farewell, My Lovely to class tomorrow. We'll set aside some time to read Chandler's novel.
Neff is certainly a mixture of Roberts and Marlowe. Like Marlowe, Neff seems very capable and makes an effort to plan things out before he does them. However, he is like Roberts because at times, when his plan does not work out the way he expects, he panics, whereas someone like Marlowe would be able to think on his/her feet and improvise.
ReplyDeleteMarlowe, Neff, and Roberts all have very similar motivations. Each of them is either partially or completely driven by love. Roberts is driven by his love for, and desire to get to, Sue. Marlowe is partially driven by his love for Vivian. Neff is driven by his love for Phyllis.
I think that Phyllis is the stereotypical femme fatale. While it might not be intentional, Phyllis uses seduction and love to eventually pull Neff into her plans to get rid of her husband. She does not show feelings for Neff in order to eventually kill her husband, but her feelings for Neff play a major role in her husband's death.
Neff is an insurance salesman, and though a good one, he can hardly find it a very interesting job; he probably has his most stimulating conversations with his boss, and the rest of the public he easily dupes into buying what insurance he tells them they need (as exemplified by his reputation at the firm) through his wit. Thus, I characterize him as a man with too large an intellect for his position, which is why he’s so drawn to Phyllis, whose quick-wittedness mirrors and thus intrigues him. This leads me to my point: while he outright states in the film that he was motivated by the money and the girl, I think it was more than that--I think he was motivated by the game. He had only just met this girl, and already he’s willing to kill for her? To kill for her money? That just doesn’t fit. But a smart man who rarely gets to show just how smart he is who’s given the opportunity to prove himself by committing the perfect crime? This, I think, is what drove (car pun in honor of the video clip) him to commit the crime.
ReplyDeleteI think Neff and Roberts are both fatalistic: this is just a guess, since I haven’t seen the end of the movie yet, but I see Neff as pulling a “tell-tale heart” when he records that he’s the one who murdered Phyllis’s husband, because he’s sure--just as Roberts was--that, one way or another, he’ll get caught anyhow. Neff and Marlowe are both slick characters motivated to involvement by an irrepressible and ever-hungry intellect.
I once again think that the female protagonist is layered (I love these complex women, especially in a time when women in the media were represented as simplistic.) Phyllis’s mannerisms, dramatized tone of voice, luring of the male protagonist to aid her certainly call to mind the classic femme fatale profile. But I think Phyllis is more than that, and this belief is based primarily on one scene that keeps playing in my head: after her husband has been murdered and Neff comments that he’d thought she would cry or panic, but she was perfectly calm. This challenges gender norms because she’s distanced herself from emotion. This empowers her in my eyes: despite her reliance on and characteristic submissiveness around Neff, she is strong, and is able to place her head before her heart.
Although Neff is similar to Roberts and Marlowe in multiple different ways, I believe he is more similar to Marlowe. When Robert’s realized that Haskell is dead, he quickly buries the body, hoping that there will not be further consequences. In comparison, Neff is different because his motive to kill Mr. Dietrichson was to win over his wife, Barbara. Due to this, he comes up with a plan with Lola to kill Mr. Dietrichson. Although, Neff thinks through his plans before acting upon them unlike Robert’s, he perhaps didn’t think them through enough. While Edward slowly unravels the truth about Mr. Dietrichson’s death, Neff starts becoming nervous. This relates to the second half of The Big Sleep, when Marlowe starts getting beaten up because the girl weakens him in a way and acts as a distraction from his work. By the second half of Double Indemnity, Neff becomes increasingly worried about how his plan wasn’t logical enough and because Edward has figured out the truth. All Neff wanted was Barbara, and he would have done anything to win her over. However, he just didn’t think through his plan well enough.
ReplyDeletePhyllis used her sexuality and flirtatious personality to convince Neff to kill her husband. She ends up becoming involved in the plan with Neff to kill her husband, but she’s more seductive in doing so. However, I’m not totally clear on the situation, but we’ve heard from the daughter that she despises Phyllis? There must be a logical reason. She told the story about how she saw Phyllis giving her a mysterious look when Lola’s mother was dying. Perhaps, Phyllis has a different side to her we don’t quite know about yet.
Neff and Marlowe both function as detectives in their own ways, and they (as well as Roberts) were manipulated by their own interests - money, women, and curiosity. All three make rash decisions - Marlowe with his guns, Roberts and his paranoia, and Neff with his murder - but Marlowe's ended with victory, while Roberts' and Neff's respective exploits certainly did not. Neff states his motivation at the beginning of the film - money, and a woman: neither of which he ended up with. Although, it seemed to be that he was also strangely excited about the murder itself - not the actual act, but the fact that they were going to commit the act. He really wanted to see if he could do it right - he was curious, and that only sweetened the pot.
ReplyDeletePhyllis doesn't quite match with the other women we have seen thus far - she seems quieter, more practical. She is driven by passion - both hate for the couple she killed, and love for Neff. Instead of mindless acts that end in disaster, she tries to bide her time and drag it out, though the same passion that keeps her going simultaneously makes it immensely difficult to wait. She says that she only wanted to kill her husband, but wasn't going to go through with it until Neff showed up - he tipped the scales, adding incentive to go ahead with the murder. Phyllis is quieter than the other women, if still a dangerous person, with Vera and the sisters being far more blunt and openly controlling.
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ReplyDeleteNeff seems to be a mixture of both Roberts and Marlowe. He followed the plans, but never acted extremely irrationally such as Roberts. Even when things did not play out well he carried on. Neff’s most obvious motivation was love. Phyllis was very quickly able to draw him in and get his help. Phyllis used her powers of seduction to swoop Neff into her plan. In the beginning, I almost felt sorry for her, but as the story continues we begin to see her darker side.
ReplyDelete- Maggie
To create the character Neff was to combine both Roberts, and Marlowe's personalitys. All of the men are determined or driven in some way, they all fall for a woman, they are usually being shady in terms of the law, and they all are involved in a crime or mystery. In my opinion Phyllis isn't the average femme fatale, but is a powerful, smart, manipulative, and a lite bit greedy. Which suprised me to have a woman have such determination to kill someone for money.
ReplyDeleteNeff's character is reminiscent of both Marlowe's and Roberts'. He shares Marlowe's quick wit, as well as his intelligence, evidenced by the plan he hatches to get away with the murder. Neff's irrationality isn't his behavior, but his decision to carry out the plan with Phyllis. His motivation throughout the film is his love for Phyllis. He sticks with his plan, even as more of her backstory comes to light through the stepdaughter, Lola. This was similar to Marlowe, who kept at the case, despite the increasingly apparent involvement by Vivienne in Murs' (Mars? Marv?) scheme.
ReplyDeleteRoberts and Marlowe are similar to Neff in many ways. First they have the same motivation, love. They are all chasing women who in many ways seem to be unattainable for them. Roberts is forced to abandon finding Sue, Marlowe is nearly killed trying to be with Vivian, and Neff is caught for murder trying to be with Phyllis. Secondly, the women make all of the men mess up. Both Neff and Roberts are caught while Marlowe gets beat up and captured.
ReplyDeleteTowards the end of Double Indemnity Phyllis is starting to look more like a femme fatale. This comes into play when you hear about here seeing Zachetti, so it seems that she may have been tricking Neff into killing Mr. Dietrichson so she can see Zachetti. This is just a guess but it seems logical.
Neff shares Marlowe's smooth talking and ingenuity. However, Neff doesn't revel in the thrill of the criminal underworld or action-packed scenes like Marlowe does. When the situation becomes too risky, Neff backs out of the plan to have a relationship with Phyllis and get the insurance money at any cost, showing he doesn't share Marlowe's obsessive need to continue his involvement in the face of danger. This panicking and trying to back out at a late stage resembles Roberts' approach. Neff self-identifies his motivation as money and lust for an intriguing, attractive woman, but, like Roberts, he abandons these because of fear of capture. Neff also comes to feel a great deal of compassion for Phyllis' situation, and he probably justifies the murder to himself because Phyllis claimed her husband neglected and was mean to her.
ReplyDeletePhyllis fits the femme fatale archetype very well with no major twists. With mysterious allure and a helpless act, she skillfully manipulates Neff into a crime that he originally had no intention of participating in when he refused to sell her the accident insurance policy. She is directly the catalyst for his downward spiral. She pretends to be almost innocent and very passive when she likely had a hand in the first wife's death. Vera did not attempt to hide her flaws, but Phyllis' secrecy seems to fit the archetype better.
I see Marlowe's witty personality and his powerful stature in Neff, but at some points I can see Robert's doubtfulness and scared personality at some points as well. It seems that Neff is a more confident and charming guy at the beginning of the story, but once he falls in love, it all goes downhill. At this point, you can see him being a lot more worried and losing his cool. I think that Phyllis is a female fatale. So far, it is seems like she is taking Neff deeper and deeper into a dangerous situation as the movie goes on. It also seems like she might be seeing other people as well. She puts a little twist to it because it seems she has more power in the relationship between Neff and her, which is very different considering the time period with women.
ReplyDeleteSome characteristics of Neff that were in Marlowe was his ability to make Phyllis instantly fall in love, but this is only one woman. Marlowe made all of the women fall in love. Roberts and Neff seem different. Roberts seems like a overall weak character, but he does value his relationship. Most of the other main characters we have seen don't.
ReplyDeletePhyllis is married and limited to doing what she wants to do. Phyllis is a twist to the femme fatale because she seems crazy. Also, most of the femme fatales have goals but Phyllis doesn't really have any.